Here is a transcript from this clip:
Tucker Carlson: Since you've been working on this for so long, and you did come out of, you know, the most prominent of the mainstream media, the Washington Post. Have you been slandered as a nutcase conspiracy theorist? I always wondered, like, what do they do with you exactly? Because you're not coming from the fringes, you're coming from right from the middle of the establishment.
Jefferson Morley: I mean, you know ...
Tucker Carlson: You've been attacked?
Jefferson Morley: Yeah. I mean, the problem that they have is that I don't have a conspiracy theory, so the label of conspiracy theorist just doesn't apply. And the other thing is, you know, nobody can deny the stuff that I'm talking about. Let me mention another JFK document that's very important, and I think will interest you. One of the things that's withheld and is in the JFK collection right now is the testimony of James Angleton in 1975 to the Church Committee about the Israeli nuclear program. This is 113-page document, and it's heavily redacted to this day, and the redactions clearly pertain to Israel. Now, is this an assassination related document? Absolutely. The Assassination Records Review Board said this is a assassination-related document. It meets the statutory definition, okay. If the President and this effort are serious, that testimony will be declassified because Angleton controlled the Oswald file on the one hand, and he was a contact with the Israelis on the other. So it belongs in the public record. That's another test of -- is this a serious effort?
Tucker Carlson: So let me ask you why in the world would the Dimona project, the Israeli nuclear program, which has never officially been admitted by anybody but Israel [sic]. What would that conceivably have to do with the assassination of JFK?
Jefferson Morley: Well, it relates to what Angleton was doing in 1963 okay There were profound conflicts between Israel and the Kennedy White House over the nuclear program. Kennedy was pressing for on-site inspections, which the Israelis resisted because on-site inspectors would have realized that they had a bomb-making program. So this was a real bone of contention between the Israeli government and the Kennedy administration in the summer of 1963, at a time when Angleton controlled the Oswald file. So just the juxtaposition of those facts means that everything about it should be on the public record.
Tucker Carlson: And Angleton, who is the counter Intel chief at CIA,
Jefferson Morley: Yeah.
Tucker Carlson: James Jesus Angleton, he ,,, that's quite amazing. Did he support, do you know his view of the Israeli nuclear program?
Jefferson Morley: I mean, it's very hard to tell sometimes from his testimony, given all the redactions, but yeah, that's, you know ... was he secretly supporting Israel against JFK? That's one of the questions that that needs to be answered by full disclosure.
Tucker Carlson: So why would he be asked about that in a Congressional hearing? That's quite amazing.
Jefferson Morley: Well, because in in 1975, the CIA had been revealed to be running assassination programs, to be running a Mind-Control Program, to be spying on the anti-war movement, spying on Americans. So, you know, he was hauled before and Congress, who was completely in the dark, had been duped or wanted to be duped. You know, suddenly their eyes woke up, and they had to explain to their constituents, hey, what have these guys been doing in our name. And so Angleton was called in, and this was all executive-session testimony. So he was grilled about lots of things, about domestic spying, about the Israeli nuclear program, about the JFK assassination. Interestingly enough, he was not questioned about Oswald, because even the Church Committee did not know the extent of the pre-assassination surveillance of Oswald. That's only something we've learned since the 1990s.
Tucker Carlson: It is interesting, I mean, I have no idea what the truth is, of course, but it is interesting that one of the only major policy changes that Lyndon Johnson made in the year after the president's murder was, you know, on the Israeli nuclear program which he accepted,
Jefferson Morley: yeah, yeah. Basically he dropped, he dropped the demand for on site inspections. He dropped the demand that the that AIPAC be classified as a domestic lobby. And, you know, there was really no accountability after that. And the story only emerged, you know, ten years later, when the, when the when the Church Committee started pressing Angleton for some explanations.
Tucker Carlson: So I had, I had no idea, until you just told me that that was actually a feature of those hearings. And so, of course, I mean, the public has, the American public has an absolute right to know what's in that exchange, fifty years later.
Jefferson Morley: Yeah, and I know, and this is a tough call for the President, because he's going to get very strong pushback from his national security apparatus, supported by the CIA, supported by Israeli interests, to say, "No, you can't talk about that. That's not permitted. You know, you can't, don't do that."
Tucker Carlson: It's just, it's frustrating as an American citizen. I don't, I don't have any kind of real agenda here, other than it's, you know, my country. I'm a shareholder in America as are you. And I think we have an absolute moral right and a legal right to know, to know this fifty years later.
Morley thinks that Angleton's Church Committee testimony is an assassination-related document:
This is 113-page document, and it's heavily redacted to this day, and the redactions clearly pertain to Israel. Now, is this an assassination related document? Absolutely. The Assassination Records Review Board said this is a assassination-related document. It meets the statutory definition, okay.
While Angleton's testimony might meet the statutory definition, the ARRB reviewed this document in 1998 and decided that large parts of it were not relevant to the JFK assassination.
Note Ronald Haron's last sentence: "I have reviewed this testimony, I agree that is has no relevance to the JFK assassination, and I concur in the CIA"s determination not to release it under the JFK Act."
Nonetheless, NARA released the entire transcript in 2018, and again in 2023. I must say that quite a bit is unredacted.
Now, of course, Angleton's interest is different from Morley's. Angleton was head of counter-intelligence and so he is most interested in Oswald's possible relationship to the Soviets.
Morley does tell Carlson that the redactions in the Angleton testimony relate to Israel, and he is correct on that. And yet on February 14, 2025, Morley asked this question in regards to Angleton's testimony:
QUESTION: Did Angleton use foreign agents to surveil Oswald?
This document will not answer that question.
Enough of the preamble, and on to the main course. The Carlson-Morley dialogue is absolutely astounding.
Morley tells Carlson:
Kennedy was pressing for on-site inspections, which the Israelis resisted because on-site inspectors would have realized that they had a bomb-making program. So this was a real bone of contention between the Israeli government and the Kennedy administration in the summer of 1963, at a time when Angleton controlled the Oswald file. So just the juxtaposition of those facts means that everything about it should be on the public record.
The unstated implication is that Israel might have had JFK murdered because he stood in their way of acquiring nuclear weapons. I think Morley realizes that he cannot actually say that, and so he just wonders about the "juxtaposition" of the bone of contention between Israel and the Kennedy administration and Angleton's supposed control of the Oswald file, as if there is any relationship between the two facts.
Perhaps Morley and Carlson aren't aware of the history of the United States - Israel relationship. But, Eisenhower established an arms embargo against Israel in the 1950s which meant that Israel had to turn to France for military supplies. JFK overturned that policy by selling Israel Hawk anti-aircraft missiles in 1962.
Yes, JFK was against nuclear proliferation, and he wanted inspection of the Dimona nuclear reactor. On the other land, Israel wanted security guarantees that the Americans were not going to provide. And it was that lack of security that ultimately led Israel to obtain nuclear weapons.
The confrontation by letter between President Kennedy and two Israeli prime ministers resulted in a series of six annual U.S. inspections of the Dimona complex (1964-69), until President Richard Nixon ended them. (The first inspection in January 1964 may have been delayed because of Kennedy’s assassination.) While Lyndon Johnson was less eager to take the Israelis to task, he was concerned about nuclear proliferation and supported the inspections. Nevertheless, the Israelis made their nuclear weapons breakthrough during the 1960s regardless of the inspections, which evidently had little prohibitive or deterrent impact.
Morley thinks that an unredacted version of Angleton's testimony will reveal his secret support of Israel, contrary to what the U. S. government wanted. Most of Angleton's relevant testimony is about a Tad Szulc article which was about to appear in Penthouse Magazine.
Angleton disputed key points:
The issue of Israel's acquisition of the nuclear bomb has long interested Jefferson Morley. He has written about it here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, here, and here.
It wasn't the United States who helped Israel go nuclear, it was France:
Crucial to Israel’s success was collaboration with France. Through Peres’s diplomatic efforts, in October 1957 France agreed to sell Israel a reactor and an underground reprocessing plant, which was built near the town of Dimona in the Negev desert. Many Israeli scientists and engineers were trained at French nuclear facilities. In another secret agreement, signed in 1959, Norway agreed to supply via Britain 20 metric tons of heavy water for the reactor.
As mentioned, one of the new documents is a Joint Atomic Energy Intelligence Committee report from December 1960. Its statements that the French-Israeli nuclear project in the Negev Desert would include a “plutonium separation plant” and that the Dimona reactor was unequivocally for weapons purposes were rare claims.
At the end of the day, I don't really care if Angleton helped Israel go nuclear. If he did, then good for him. Facing genocidal nations and genocidal terrorist organizations, Israel made a rational choice to go nuclear.
Morley doesn't much like Israel. I get it. But why the need to tie this all into the JFK assassination?
Previous Relevant Blog Posts on Jefferson Morley
Morley believes that the United States can never be great unless it solves the JFK assassination.
An analysis of the 13 documents Morley wants to see.
Morley claims I am a CIA apologist and then misquotes me.
It would be worthwhile for the CIA to release the Joannides file just to stop the incessant posts from Jefferson Morley.
Actually, Oswald stayed at two budget-priced hotels in Helsinki.
He keeps asking the same questions, and we keep posting the same answers.
Conspiracy authors are playing fast and loose with the facts.
There is no evidence that Diaz was involved in the JFK assassination.
There are clues as to what is in a redacted section of Schlesinger's memo.
Chad Nagle and Dan Storper's article on New Orleans gets everything wrong.
Believing Michael Kurtz is problematic.
Morley wrote that there are two redacted memos on CIA reorganization, but there is only one. He wrote about Goodwin's copy as if it was a different memo, rather than a copy of the Schlesinger memo.
The phrase 'who shot John' does not refer to the JFK assassination.
Only one word is redacted in Harvey's deposition.
There are no redactions in the Operation Northwoods document.
Kilgallen had nothing to tell.
An underwhelming interview of Marina Oswald.
Morley often repeats stories and changes their meanings.
Chad Nagle claims there was an assassination plot against JFK in Chicago in November 1963. One problem: There is no evidence of such a plot.
A response to Morley's Substack post alleging that I am a CIA apologist.
A rebuttal to Morley's response to my post Was Bill Harvey in Dallas in November of 1963?
There is no credible evidence Harvey was in Dallas in November of 1963.
Morley repeats the claim that Dulles was at a CIA training center during the weekend of the JFK assassination. He wasn't.
Morley's claims about Efron are all wrong.
Morley responded to my article "The Truth about Operation Northwoods." Here is my reply.
W. Tracy Parnell is one of the best JFK assassination researchers out there. Here is his look at Jefferson Morley with several important articles.
Operation Northwoods can only be understood as part of the Kennedys' war against Cuba and Operation Mongoose.
And a response from me.
There is no evidence that Dr. West petitioned the court to examine Jack Ruby before his trial.
There is absolutely no evidence that Dr. Louis Jolyon West interfered with Jack Ruby's case.
Jefferson Morley used a fake Oswald handbill in his press conference for the Mary Ferrell Foundation.
An examination of redactions in the JFK collection of documents.